Mark Spizzirri: Red Wings dress up as an "efficient" team to grind out victory vs. Canucks

You got lucky!!

You got lucky!!
- LeftCoaster

Sounds like the better team won, we'll get it back at the Joe!

Really close game. Vancouver's goal was a line mismatch.
I thought Weiss was better than his stat line suggested. He was battling hard for pucks all night and that extra effort, in the long run, should result in more points (especially if Cleary gets pulled from his line).
Also great to see Tatar get rewarded for putting the puck on net with the game winner. Loved that Babcock put him out with Datsyuk and Zetterberg at the end of their shift. Cleary stayed on for the offensive attack when his linemates changed and when he finally got off, it was Tatar that replaced him. You see the amount of space 13 and 40 created for him even without touching the puck.

Swap Nyquist in for Cleary and once Helm comes back for Glendenning (not that he has played poorly at all) and this is definitely the forward group the wings should be playing every night. Not sure where I'd put Franzen when he comes back though...

Mark Spizzirri: Red Wings dress up as an "efficient" team to grind out victory vs. Canucks
- spity1

This was a great read. Nice work.

I think this would be a killer 5-on-5 lineup:

Bertuzzi - Datsyuk - Alfredsson
Zetterberg - Weiss - Franzen
Tatar - Andersson - Nyquist
Abdelkader - Helm - Miller

The only issue here is that, ideally, you want a lot of good penalty killers in your bottom six so you can save your scorers for even stength and powerplay work, but here you've only got three that really play PK at all - Helm, Miller, and Andersson. So you would have to distribute a little extra PK time to Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Alfredsson, and Weiss and maybe roll your lines a bit more at even strength.

Still, I think that's worth the tradeoff of being able to get Cleary and whomever of Tootoo or Samuelsson Babcock hates least that afternoon out of the everyday lineup.

I think this would be a killer 5-on-5 lineup:

Bertuzzi - Datsyuk - Alfredsson
Zetterberg - Weiss - Franzen
Tatar - Andersson - Nyquist
Abdelkader - Helm - Miller

The only issue here is that, ideally, you want a lot of good penalty killers in your bottom six so you can save your scorers for even stength and powerplay work, but here you've only got three that really play PK at all - Helm, Miller, and Andersson. So you would have to distribute a little extra PK time to Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Alfredsson, and Weiss and maybe roll your lines a bit more at even strength.

Still, I think that's worth the tradeoff of being able to get Cleary and whomever of Tootoo or Samuelsson Babcock hates least that afternoon out of the everyday lineup.
- Sven22

Great line up for sure. Getting Eaves in there if/when someone goes down gives you that extra PKer. I think that youthful third line with a ton of speed will be huge for the wings, like it was at the end of last year and into the playoffs

I think this would be a killer 5-on-5 lineup:

Bertuzzi - Datsyuk - Alfredsson
Zetterberg - Weiss - Franzen
Tatar - Andersson - Nyquist
Abdelkader - Helm - Miller

The only issue here is that, ideally, you want a lot of good penalty killers in your bottom six so you can save your scorers for even stength and powerplay work, but here you've only got three that really play PK at all - Helm, Miller, and Andersson. So you would have to distribute a little extra PK time to Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Alfredsson, and Weiss and maybe roll your lines a bit more at even strength.

Still, I think that's worth the tradeoff of being able to get Cleary and whomever of Tootoo or Samuelsson Babcock hates least that afternoon out of the everyday lineup.
- Sven22

no the lines were perfect last night.

no the lines were perfect last night.
- Jurco_28

So I suppose you think Franzen, Helm, and Nyquist should should all stay out of the lineup indefinitely to avoid messing with last night's "perfect" lineup. Better keep Ericsson out of the lineup too once he gets healthy.

Sounds like the better team won, we'll get it back at the Joe!
- 1970vintage

Yeah, Detroit outplayed the Canucks in this one. Lack of depth showed.

So I suppose you think Franzen, Helm, and Nyquist should should all stay out of the lineup indefinitely to avoid messing with last night's "perfect" lineup. Better keep Ericsson out of the lineup too once he gets healthy.
- Sven22

franzen, ya the big "power forward" who has 2 goals on the season
Helm who has played one game in 18 months


and yeah, theres the salary cap too

franzen, ya the big "power forward" who has 2 goals on the season
Helm who has played one game in 18 months


and yeah, theres the salary cap too
- Jurco_28

You would rather have Cleary on the second line than Nyquist?

Franzen frustrates me too, but you're fooling yourself if you think any of Abdelkader, Eaves, Andersson, Miller, Tatar, Glendening, Bertuzzi, or Cleary are better hockey players than him. Some of them might be better at their specific roles than Franzen is at his, but none of them are going to do as much to help you actually win games over the long run.

With Helm you have a point that he might not be the same player after so much time off, but you have to give him that chance, because if he's healthy and in game shape 1) he's by far the best choice for 4C over Glendening and 3) his speed is a big, big help in a lineup that's arguably one of the league's slowest.

And yes, I realize the Wings will need to clear cap space for these things to happen.

Franzen frustrates me too, but you're fooling yourself if you think any of Abdelkader, Eaves, Andersson, Miller, Tatar, Glendening, Bertuzzi, or Cleary are better hockey players than him. Some of them might be better at their specific roles than Franzen is at his, but none of them are going to do as much to help you actually win games over the long run.

With Helm you have a point that he might not be the same player after so much time off, but you have to give him that chance, because if he's healthy and in game shape 1) he's by far the best choice for 4C over Glendening and 3) his speed is a big, big help in a lineup that's arguably one of the league's slowest.

And yes, I realize the Wings will need to clear cap space for these things to happen.
- Sven22

agree with some of this -- I think goal scorers in general are frustrating, they are sporadic at best, all of them... so Franzen is no different. It can be frustrating, particularly when he looks like he is disinterested or "floats" as many say in his own zone.

However,
Franzen is still a player other teams watch and watch closely for a reason... he can break out any minute. Let's not forget he is a player making less than 4mil, but seems to always at least be on the other team radar.

Now,
Helm deserves to get healthy and play. Unfortunate situation, but you can't just dismiss him until you know for sure that he is just not going to help out anymore.

I actually believe that Abbey and Tatar may have more to show than what we see, but that is a potential based initiative at this point, so I wont entirely say that they cannot help out in a bigger way and soon -- but at this particular juncture, Franzen is more of a help than the above, but with a to be continued.

agree with some of this -- I think goal scorers in general are frustrating, they are sporadic at best, all of them... so Franzen is no different. It can be frustrating, particularly when he looks like he is disinterested or "floats" as many say in his own zone.

However,
Franzen is still a player other teams watch and watch closely for a reason... he can break out any minute. Let's not forget he is a player making less than 4mil, but seems to always at least be on the other team radar.

Now,
Helm deserves to get healthy and play. Unfortunate situation, but you can't just dismiss him until you know for sure that he is just not going to help out anymore.

I actually believe that Abbey and Tatar may have more to show than what we see, but that is a potential based initiative at this point, so I wont entirely say that they cannot help out in a bigger way and soon -- but at this particular juncture, Franzen is more of a help than the above, but with a to be continued.
- BooBoo997

Franzen's cap hit might be 3.9 mil but his salary is actually 5 mil...has been that or a bit higher since he signed it and will be for 2 more years before it starts dropping. You expect a 5 mil player to show up more often than he does and contribute more than what he does. A lower cap hit than actual salary should not be an excuse for lack of effort on most nights. He has 5 million reasons to be one of the hardest working players on the ice every night.

agree with some of this -- I think goal scorers in general are frustrating, they are sporadic at best, all of them... so Franzen is no different. It can be frustrating, particularly when he looks like he is disinterested or "floats" as many say in his own zone.

However,
Franzen is still a player other teams watch and watch closely for a reason... he can break out any minute. Let's not forget he is a player making less than 4mil, but seems to always at least be on the other team radar.

Now,
Helm deserves to get healthy and play. Unfortunate situation, but you can't just dismiss him until you know for sure that he is just not going to help out anymore.

I actually believe that Abbey and Tatar may have more to show than what we see, but that is a potential based initiative at this point, so I wont entirely say that they cannot help out in a bigger way and soon -- but at this particular juncture, Franzen is more of a help than the above, but with a to be continued.
- BooBoo997

I'm on record for being a Franzen apologist. Like I said, he does frustrate me at times, but I think most of the angst directed at him by Wings fans isn't really fair, but based on a false belief about what he's truly capable of. When you look at this stats over the last 5 years, especially in terms of scoring rates per game, he's actually remarkably consistent over the long run. He's just not as good as we want him to be. That's not entirely or even mostly his fault.

Tatar hopefully will grow into a great player. He's already pretty good and still young. Abdelkader, though, I think is what he is. Even Holmstrom, generally considered both a terrible skater and a powerplay specialist, was putting out roughly 35 points per 82 games at even strength alone during much of his mid 30s. You want to talk about guys who could "move pianos" on lines with great players, Holmstrom is the quintessential example.

Abdelkader, for all the opportunities he's been given, just doesn't seem to be that kind of player. Despite increased ice time and a lot of chances to play with Datsyuk he still only scored at about a 20-point pace last year, and he's off to another slow start this year. Sure he had 10 goals in the 2013 season, but 2 of them were empty netters and at least 3 of them were basically Datsyuk using him as a human pinball bumper. Not impressed.

I'm on record for being a Franzen apologist. Like I said, he does frustrate me at times, but I think most of the angst directed at him by Wings fans isn't really fair, but based on a false belief about what he's truly capable of. When you look at this stats over the last 5 years, especially in terms of scoring rates per game, he's actually remarkably consistent over the long run. He's just not as good as we want him to be. That's not entirely or even mostly his fault.

Tatar hopefully will grow into a great player. He's already pretty good and still young. Abdelkader, though, I think is what he is. Even Holmstrom, generally considered both a terrible skater and a powerplay specialist, was putting out roughly 35 points per 82 games at even strength alone during much of his mid 30s. You want to talk about guys who could "move pianos" on lines with great players, Holmstrom is the quintessential example.

Abdelkader, for all the opportunities he's been given, just doesn't seem to be that kind of player. Despite increased ice time and a lot of chances to play with Datsyuk he still only scored at about a 20-point pace last year, and he's off to another slow start this year. Sure he had 10 goals in the 2013 season, but 2 of them were empty netters and at least 3 of them were basically Datsyuk using him as a human pinball bumper. Not impressed.
- Sven22

Im not impressed with Abbey`s numbers, but to me he does more with that top line then when he is on the 4th line -- Also Holmstrom, only was an impactful player in his 30s... perhaps, Abbey grows into something more is all im saying.

Franzen's cap hit might be 3.9 mil but his salary is actually 5 mil...has been that or a bit higher since he signed it and will be for 2 more years before it starts dropping. You expect a 5 mil player to show up more often than he does and contribute more than what he does. A lower cap hit than actual salary should not be an excuse for lack of effort on most nights. He has 5 million reasons to be one of the hardest working players on the ice every night.
- dcz28

I think the optics of Franzen is far worse than he is. I always found Shanny as a `lazy`skater if you will, but I agree he can be frustrating at any cost... but I guess I never considered him a `3rd best player on the team`, to me he was 40pt physical player who can pop goals here and there, but will be a threat to the opposition on a nightly basis despite his output.

At least the Wings got the two points in Calgary. It seems the Bertuzzi - Datsyuk - Zetterberg line can be very effective. Datsyuk and Hank have the speed / skill and Bertuzzi can use his size and reach down low. He's still got good hands around the net. This line gives Babcock some good options. Bert had a beautiful setup pass that led to a goal right in front of the Cagary net. Franzen left the game so I doubt he will be in the lineup tonight.

Anybody else notice how awesome Tatar and Andersson are playing on the same line..?? NOW PLEASE ADD NYQUIST to the damn lineup Mr. Holland and trade Tootoo for a draft pick so we can get Nyquist back in Detroit !!

Abdelkader is a 3rd / 4th line player as far as I'm concerned... but he does add versatility and is a good depth player. The team really needs Weiss to step up and start producing offense. Now if Helm would just stay healthy....

Now that Helm is slated to be in the lineup tonight here are the line combinations I'd like to see Babcock use:

Alfredsson - Datsyuk - Bertuzzi
Zetterberg - Weiss - Eaves
Tatar - Andersson - Abdelkader
Miller - Helm - Tootoo

Sitting on the bench: Samuelsson, Cleary, Franzen (sick)

Just an unrelated side note on the GR Griffins...

This team is stacked with talent. Even without Nyquist, Tatar and Andersson this team is very deep. Went to the game last Wednesday and Chris Chelios walked right by me in a suit. Griffins won 5-2.

Jurco is going to be a bonafide top six forward. This kid has the most raw talent on the Griffins of all their forwards by far. Reminds me of Sergei Fedorov when he's on top of his game. Holland better give this guy a shot in Detroit sometime in the near future because he's the real deal. Also noticed that Ryan Sproul has a cannon of a shot. Pulkinen and Frk also have great shots.